Bartender Masterclass: On Mastery featuring Master Bartender Yael Vengroff (Part 1)

Training for Mastery takes years of work and dedication, and after a certain point there is no road map in any industry that helps the novice graduate to the journeyman, and the journeyman transform into the master. 

In our continuing Bartending Masterclass, host & Master Bartender Michael J. Neff, discussed the different phases of mastery. This time, we’re focusing on Mastery of the Heart with special guest Ms. Yael Vengroff (aka Yael Stormborn).

Yael is a long-time bartender who cut her teeth in some of the most storied bars in Houston (Grand Prize) & New York City (Pegu Club, Painkiller) before moving to Los Angeles to take over as Bar Director for The Spare Room in the Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood and Genghis Coen. The group also has bars in Seattle and Nashville, which Yael helms, as well.

She has many accomplishments to her name, including winning the women-only charity speed competition Speed Rack, as well as being named Best American Bartender at the prestigious Tales of the Cocktail.

Some highlights from Part 1 of our conversation:

“Our biggest mountain to climb after (COVID) is, how do we keep the sexy, how do we keep the romanticism, how do we keep all these things.”

“Vulnerability breeds vulnerability. It means accountability. It means admittance. It means transparency.”

“If you’re not a bartender-owner, your top-tier management better be that soldier that is so intuitive and that leads back to vulnerability. People without vulnerability don’t know how to listen.”

“The reason that I can do what I do, and that I do what I do, is that I’m not afraid to talk about my weaknesses. And my shortcomings. And my mistakes.”


Weird-tempo Banjo Tune: Katy Hill

Transcript

(Intro) 

Coming out to you almost live from Cottonmouth studios in fabulous Houston, Texas. 

Michael Neff (MN):

Hey folks. Thanks so much for listening to our podcast. The  Cottonmouth Club Presents in which we discuss bars, Bar culture, cocktails and spirits all through the specific lens of hospitality that only exists in places like bars. My name is Michael Neff Master Bartender. And your host for the series, so you might have noticed we've taken a little break, as you all probably know, American's bars are so limited or shut down, and the fight to preserve them has taken a front seat just about everything else. Part of that effort to preserve the culture is what we're trying to do here. So we're happy to be back discussing Mastery with some of the best bartenders in the world. Tonight We're talking with Master Bartender Yael Vengroff also known as Yael Stormborn she's the Bar Director for Genghis Cohen and The Spare Room in Los Angeles. Yael has many accomplishments, including being named in 2018 Best American Bartender by Tales of the Cocktail. Those aren't the things that make her great though. And not the things I love about her. To see why I like Yale so much as a Bartender you have to watch her.

MN:

What you’ll hear in this which is part one of our two part conversation is that Yael has very specific ideas about how her career as a dancer informed her career as a Bartender. She talks about a lot of other things, too many of which most people wouldn't necessarily expect to hear when talking about bartenders. Yael and I have known each other for years, even starting what could have been a very early predecessor to this podcast, which you'll hear us discuss at the very beginning of our conversation. And I'm thrilled to have her on the podcast for this excellent masterclass before we get started, though, I want to remind you that we are still bartenders and we do work for tips.

MN:

That's Venmo at the Cottonmouth Club dash staff. You also find a QR code for PayPal and the description of this podcast, every dollar goes to support our efforts, not just to maintain the culture of bars in the United States, but around the globe. So we really appreciate everyone who has contributed. So without further ado, I'm going to pass myself off to myself and Yael  Stormborn talking COVID, cocktails, the nature of untrainables, and the biggest mountain we will have to climb as we come back from this pandemic, stay tuned. 

MN:

Hey folks, welcome back We're about to start our Masterclass with a great Yael Vengroff before we get started, I want to remind you Yael and I have known each other personally and professionally for quite some time, a few years back. She and I started what was in essence, a recorded Bartender wisdom group, or we put together a panel of different people in Los Angeles, including Eric Tecosky, Dan long, and Steve SUA, along with Yael and myself that was recorded and originally intended to go out as what would essence be an early podcast, which in retrospect we really should of done. So we started our conversation remembering that.

Yael Vengroff (YV):

Aye. Aye. It's so funny that you said that I almost was a little bit bummed out that I, that I wasn't at LA because I have this look at the time that back when we were doing a, what the f**k do we call that thing we did.

 I found the outline in my email, but at a very, very good friend who I'm sure, you know, Justin Van  back in the day, you gave me a very little like white notebook and I was like struggling with a boy at the time. Right. And he, like, you like wrote a little note at the end of the book that like, I would eventually see that was talked to talk to so and so, or something like that. And he also, I think, was like trying, I had taken a pause on my writing at the moment, and he's an incredible writer and was trying to motivate me to start writing again. And like perhaps these notebooks where the way that he worked to record is thoughts. And we drove out, I moved from Houston to LA and he drove me. He drove me on that journey. We did the whole thing in 24 hours. It was wild because he had to be back at oxheart for service, of course, like the day after. So we had to do this thing in 24 hours. And when I, and I, when I got to LA that in that notebook traveled around with me and made it several years. And that was the notebook that I was still carrying around when ever you came back and we started working on whenever that was called. It had a really good name too.

MN:

It wasn’t shift drink. I think it might've a shift drink actually.

YV?

No. Was it? 

MN:

Something like that.

YV:

I still have that notebook and it’s in my room and my apartment in LA and I was like, so bummed out that I couldn't because I, because I think that is like such a time capsule because I know that you and I have had these conversations before in a different setting and in a different time, you know?

MN:

Well in a different world. I mean, I mean it is a different world if its 10 years ago and we're different places in our careers. It wasn't probably three, but either way

YV:

What the F*** is this world going to be? Like what the f**k is this world going to be? You know, I was thinking kind of like brainstorming a little bit today because you know my boss Mark Rose, we had a conversation I walked in today and he'd ask me for notes on a pitch deck for the Spare Room to do a little takeover of a at the Rosie oyster bar, which is In Tropicana in the Roosevelt hotel. After our conversation, I was like, I don't know if I want to give him these notes because I want to set the best example, and I sat and talk to him and also like I thought about it and the space that we would be taking over is a very safe space. It's 30 people, max, it's all spread out. We could easily be responsible in that space. We're also in a city that, while as having rampant spikes and COVID for the most part is still being very responsible. So I was like, okay. And he was like, you know what? We don't know what's going to happen, Yael. He said, you know, it's going to take our industry five years to recover right. Easily. And I noodded my head. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I mean, I maybe thought three,

MN:

We could do it in a way that doesn't take five years. We could do it in a way that coordinates the right people saying the right s**t. And literally going into different communities in saying, no, you, you, you want to think of bail out is a joke. I'm not saying this is a joke. You need to do it. And here's why, and you can make that point enough for the public. I can get behind you and say, yeah, cool. And then I'm not saying it's gonna happen that way, but it won't happen if we don't try to make it.

YV:

Yeah. And in that sense, like I still do feel like a little bit of a s*****g because it does have to be this team effort, right. 

MN:

That’s also not what you're for. 

YV:

I know. 

MN:

You’re for other stuff, and those things are important too. Right? I will be the one that can put myself forward because I don't have to worry about any brand. I don't have to worry about any, I don't have to worry about my career. Like I'm already set in stone, I've done so many things already. I don't have to worry about my legacy or any, any s**t like that. And I w I will work as a Bartender till I die. I don't need to try to court some kind of other situation that I'm not going to make myself. It's a relatively unique position in, in, in that layer of the business, because I don't have any brands that tell me, like, Hey, you probably shouldn't do this or that. And I'm like, someone has to be able to say what needs to be said. And I'm like, cool. I'll say it. You know, I don't want everyone to lose their jobs, but I need everyone to know that half of us won't have jobs. If there is no bars anymore to sell to.

YV:

So we have a bunch of questions for you. If you don't mind, one is what are you going to be talking about for BCB?

MN:

I had proposed a version of a lot of the stuff, which makes me love you as a Bartender because, you know, you said something yesterday when we're talking and I'm kind of OG in that I'm like, whatever, but I'm not that OG. Like I'm not getting there,

YV: 

You’re super OG.

MN:

Yeah but I wasn't working in the seventies, you know? And, and the bar scene that I came up in was really kind of just adjacent to when things started to change.

YV:

True, true, for sure. 

MN:

So, so I'm, I'm of that really interesting generation has a career that spans just before and just after the modern Cocktail boom, I wasn't OG when the, when the Cocktail thing happened, but I was, I was certainly journeymen, you know, has been a bartender for eight years professionally, so sure. But it's taking the idea that we kind of talked about yesterday that I would love to talk about more tonight and saying, we train on very specific things. We train on cocktails, which are a method. Sometimes we try on history are at least our own histories, our lineages and s**t, but we don't train on Bartending. And I remember what I proposed them as something in the line of that, which is like, how do we recalibrate our training to include training on Bartending because the results.

YV:

Which was what our original thought about, whatever the heck shifting dangled. Right? So the thing was, I think our first topic was how to build a night or something like that. Right. Which to go back to your Masterclass like a really adored it because you're talking to the right people or you're talking to different people. And I think that, that, that was what I loved most about it is its authenticity. And its like really brute, honest nature and a, and it's like, and people say that a lot about me as well. And it's like, well, guess what?

We don't know any other way to be. So we’re going to be ourselves. If that means throwing napkins in the air in your face when I’m behind the bar then it means that. And you’ll love it because I'm going to sell it because I read the room right.

MN:

And that's why I think that the Training thing is so important. And I always, and again, this now conversation with you is it is like three or four years old, but now it's even worse because when we made training programs are only based on the stuff that we told them was important. They institutionally started to diminish all of the other stuff.

YV:

Well we even, you know, we even referred to these things that were talking about is that, or like we have to hire for this. Like we need somebody to that satisfies this. We call them untrainables or at least I do. We literally called them untrainables. We say, I can teach how to stir. I can teach it on a shake. I can’t teach passion. I can’t teach humor.

MN:

So they say you can't teach it. You can hire it. I don't say you can't teach it. I say you can show it and hope that people pick it up. The people that go through my training programs, this is like nine months long process more you know, these, these were people who had worked all around Houston for all of this time. And everyone's like, we know how these guys are. And some of them, in fact, all of them, at some point someone came up to me on, on the, on the side, it said you shouldn't hire them because they're like this. And I'm like, you know what? I get what you're saying. I appreciate your feedback.

I got it. Don't worry about it.

YV:

No dude, people said that to Mark about me too. You know, I was like, Oh, she moves around a lot. I’ve been working for them for five and a half years. Because Mark, is an inspiration, Mark has spent like can work for every position. You, you know, it puts attention on to every position. But I think that what these things that we’re talking about these quote unquote untrainables, that we need to find a different word for it's because we're not putting people in the position to do that training that have those things. So maybe we need better top tier leadership.

MN:

You put your finger on it? Because we created a culture and by we, I don't mean you because you weren't there at the time and you are unique. You're not unique, but your-

YV:

I'm not?  

MN:

You're a snowflake. 

YV:

I thought I was a pixie mermaid.

MN:

Right? And that too. You are able to take yourself as a person, as a human, and as a bartender and still like dive into the Cocktail thing and not get corrupted by it. So you were able to remain, you were able to remain a really good Bartender and also learned the Cocktail thing. And the learn the advantage you get in the cocktail thing, because what so many of the people who go through these programs don't know is that if you know how to flip the bottle, your cocktail is tastes better.

MN:

Well, you know, we, we can talk about the neurology of it and that's fine. But as another way of saying, if your awesome as a Bartender people neurologically, like their body responds differently. When they see me behind the bar, everyone is like, I'm getting a Cocktail from that guy, whether they know who I am are not because I don't have to, I don't have to, I don't have to show them what it is that I do. My body just does it all by itself.

YV:

I love that so much. And I think that one of the reasons why I have success in that same exact area is all connected to dance. And so many people who have done a lot of interviews where people have definitely connected like my dancing with, with my working. And it's so connected, but I've often wondered, in fact, in quarantine, I was like, this is when I should learn to flare. I have incredible-

MN:

Have you seen my videos? 

YV:

No.

MN:

I have a whole series on YouTube called Neff learns flare and tells stories 

YV:

Oh, that’s awesome.

MN:

Because I wanted to learn. Like, but like not just working flare, but Some, I mean-

YV:

You know, I mean, actual flare I have insane body command. I have impeccable balance. Like, why am I not learning how to flare? Man, I'm totally you to steal your idea. I'm just kidding.

MN:

Oh no no, please do. I think we should all do it because I mean, but it came from the fact that like I was, I was sitting there going, like I'm telling people they need to improve themselves. I wanted to do it to. I've always wanted to, like, I don't need to be a flair tender by any means. And I have great working flare just cause I've been doing it for so long and time. And like every good Bartender like my hand eye coordination is f*****g bomb. I have all these things anyway, but I've never sat and gave myself the muscle memory of doing like an overhand, triple flip and just like do it.

2 (14m 56s):

And it takes a lot of time just like doing it over and over. And I wanted to film myself. So I was like, well, I'll just tell stories while I'm doing it. I think everybody should do it. Cause I'm like, I love, I love flair. I love it. Love it, love it. And then when I, like, when we used to work with the guy in, in Wes Bouchia and he grew up in a bar, his mom owned a bar and all the people that he knew, all the men, he knew growing up, all her bartenders. And so as a bartender, well, before he made cocktails and then went to culinary school, he knew flare. So we'd be working Friday night for deep at the bar doing a f*****g bespoke cocktails and would be like Wes Wes Wes Wes, right now is perfect. Cause you know, all these people and he would do some like thing. And I was like, yay. The people love it. People love it. And if you can flare an old fashioned it is a kick your ass old fashioned also chemically as good as what you get at PDT.

YV:

Totally. I have- the bar at Spare Room is brass brass Bar top. And I set the drink down and I spin it so that your old fashion, or even what, any day, any drink in a rock class, that isn’t full. So pretty much just the old fashioned and I, or like something on the rocks and send it to you. And, and everyone is like, you know, like that there's so much sex and what we do and, and, and, and, and, and sex is of the body and And and dance is of the body and all of these things. And like, I, I, I totally agree with you. That's connected to the neurology and, and that, that is going to be our biggest mountain to climb after the, the monetary, the, how the f**k do we stay open and take, take care of People is how do we keep the sexy, how do we keep the romanticism and how do we keep all of these things? And, you know, my brain started going to, like, I really think that wow, things are so unsure. And especially like, I really feel for all the people that were maybe not in stable or like happy places before quarantine that we're like in these periods of what's next for me, that now are like super in these periods of what's next for me, or people that were ready to move on, or like, what have you. And I think, I think to go is gonna have to be the model for like, you know, back to what Mark was saying about how we're not going to recover for like five years.

I think that the model has to shift to, to go.

MN:

Yeah if that happens And we got, we got, we got an issue and, you know, honestly as well.

YV:

Because you can't do not have your space because your space is to expensive, 

MN:

But also, this is not prohibition. Right? So our industry has survived periods of time where it couldn't do what people wanted to do. And what I realized and what I realized about the shutdown and said one day, and just kind of like, it just came out of my mouth and that I thought about it. I was like, this is the longest time that people have not been able to have a drink at a bar from a Bartender since prohibition. And the wonderful thing about that, is that it kind of stripped away this layer of what bars are for.

MN:

Because if, if it's just for drinking, then it's like, okay, well, you don't need your, your drinking already. If it's just for making cocktails, it’s like we all went online and showed you how to make all these cocktails is still in the clamoring to want to come back. So it gives us an opportunity to go back and say like, okay, how do we, how do we identify that? How do we hire it? And once you hire it, then you can train it. So it used to be, you couldn't be a dork and be an Bartender, you know, you couldn't be a nerd

YV:

Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Nashville is a really funny City for that. Let me tell you because, because of Broadway and it's like, you know, when we ask for like

MN:

Which is also awesome. I love drinking on Broadway.

YV:

Oh totally dude. But it's like kind of that old mentality of like, at least when I started up and like the movement with starting to begin, it was like god I hate to like denigrate like any specific business, but like Hooter's brand of Bartender like sexy, like a big titty, like gal was on the outs, at least in our community, but not in the rest of the world. And also like, so, okay. So say you're not that girl and say you are the cocktail Bartender and you actually do have the skills? No, one's Training those cops people bartenders. How do we be sexy?

MN:

You know what? I need your permission to have this conversation because I'm going to say some s**t that is not going to, I'm not, I'm not going to lay down all of the things because, because I, I, I am aware, but there was a lot of what happened in like that structure existed for a reason. And most of us who were behind those bars and the days where you're like Friday night, you always have a dude and a girl. Yeah. Well it wasn't necessarily always. And also I never fit into that mold. So usually it was a tall, handsome model looking dude.

MN:

And like you said, some big titty blonde girl, but that model is still existed at  other places. So when I worked at Tribe and the East village I'll work with Catherine behind the bar and you know, she was great. She was cute and she's sweet and she loved to dance and she was also a very good Bartender, but we knew because it was Friday in east village, like if four dudes walked in, I'd be like, go get him tiger.

YV:

And I miss that.

MN:

Right. And then If three chicks walked in. I'm like I got this because there's always, always an element of fantasy in what we do and a good portion of that fantasy is sex. Or at least, at least the fantasy of, of the sexual or the sensual.

YV:

Totally.

MN: 

No, no. I describe, I train, I train the old fashioned from my, from my bartenders as if their on a Tinder date that will go perfectly well and they'll get laid if they could just make this drink. Right. I was like, you need to put all your s**t into this thing right now. And if you do it right, then your, this is, this is going to end well for you. And if you f**k it up, then that person's going to go like, Hey, it's really nice to meet you. I'm going to go. 

YV:

Yeah, F**k dude. I, that just gave me like chills a little bit because it’s been and you know, and to get a good call being like, Oh I need your permission to have this conversation. Like I like, I feel like it’s so hard to even have this conversation anymore because that is so important. And like, it just gives me chills, even thinking about like when I've had that and we deal, you know, we hire for skill and we hire for diversity and we hire for like, like equal opportunity and we hire the best, like, you know, thinking about events I've worked with or not, not even in events like, like guest Bartending s**t.

Like I've been fortunate to like work with Kurt and its like, we, we already know. Okay. You go there. I go there and we’re going to make a bunch of money.

MN:

I think hiring for that, that kind of thing. Isn't hiring on look's which is illegal. It's a hiring on personality.

YV:

It's all that. 

MN:

Anybody who knows what sexy really is knows that it's 100% about personality. 

YV:

Oh dude. Well there are people that I'm attracted to do that. Unlike not a good looking person, but he's so f*****g funny.

MN:

All right. Ask Tom petty. Yael give me two seconds, I'm going to reach for beer. 

*BREAK*

MN:

Hey folks. Thanks so much for listening. We are here with Master Bartender Yael Vengroff also known as Yael Stormborn talking about so many great things. We're going to take a really quick break. And when we come back more with Yael Vengroff this master class series. Thanks so much for listening. Howdy y’all. If you like what you're hearing, you can make a contribution on Venmo @TheCottonmouthClub-Staff. Thank you very much.

MN:

I also want to remind you because I think because of what you do on, on your live stream, you keep trying to interview me. Which I think is funny It's fine. It's absolutely fine. I'm totally cool with it.

YV:

I ask a lot of questions, man. I, I really preach. vulnerability like so hard. I can't speak enough to how important vulnerability is. I think vulnerability breeds vulnerability. Right? And I think that that is like such an important tenant to go around and to live by. I think vulnerability means accountability. I think vulnerability means admittance and I think vulnerability means transparency.

MN:

So vulnerability and compassion and the ability to, and discretion. I think like all of those things.

YV:

Oh I suck at that.

MN:

Probably not as a Bartender I bet you money. 

YV:

Okay. Yeah. 

MN:

I bet you, and this, these are, these are a part of these other kind of untrainable things.

YV:

Cause that goes back to the magic trick that you mentioned earlier.

MN

And also ya know, a lack of judgment. If you wanna come in with your with your wife on one night and your mistress the next night, it's not my place to judge you.

YV:

No I'm going to get you laid both nights.

MN:

Dope. And, and honestly, like I don't have the freedom to say, I don't know nearly enough about what your life is. And also even if I did, part of the reason they come to us is because they can do things that they wouldn't do in their regular lives. Usually, cause there are drunk, but sometimes cause there are not and know that we are the vault in which things do not leave. Right. We don't f*****g talk about our, our customers maybe to each other. And I don't even like that.

YV:

I have a hard time with that. I, if I have somebody on staff, that's doing that s**t. The minute I hear, I take him into the back and I'm like, listen, that's not going to fly around here. It's not worth our energy.

MN:

And also we don't, we don't talk about tips. We don't tell them people and we don't talk a lot about other customers.

YV:

But you know, what's interesting that what, what you're talking about right now is because I do when I look at like how to train these things, I do try to like trace back to like where I learned that thing or how I learned that thing. And in a lot of circumstances, nobody taught it to me. It's just how I am. Or I learn over time. Yeah. It really evolved. Totally. So that's a little tricky because I, you can give somebody like this, like, you know, metaphysical or like, like philosophical handbook of like Michael Neff-isms or like Yael Vengroff-isms, you know, all day, but that has to live and breathe in you naturally that's transformation.

MN:

Yeah. And I think some of that's true, but I mean, looking back at my own learning, especially when I was in the early days of learning what it is to be a Bartender every once in awhile, someone would correct me much like you you're talking about like, Hey pal, just so you know, we don't do that s**t here. Like, but for the most part, it's not that I wasn't taught it's just, I wasn't told teaching, took place over the course of service. And you know, I had, when I started and I was brand new, everyone was kind of my boss. Right. Cause you'd like you said, you guys know what you're doing.

MN:

I don't know what I'm doing. I walked behind a bar. I'd never been behind a bar. I'd never worked in a restaurant. I just f*****g lied my ass off. And I'm like, all right, s**t. I gotta figure it out. So I took so many cues and I was very, very lucky. The very first job I had put an enormously important foundation of hospitality in my DNA because that's what the, the general manager of the place was the King of that. And I learned so much from him. Very few times did he ever have to pull me aside and say, this is what we do or don't do. It's just like, this is what we did. Cause that's what Craig did.

YV:

Oh man. It's so funny. I circle back to like my old GMs all the time.

MN:

But think of it though? Yael, Well, I mean, it's the same thing we were talking about with the whole training thing. Training and hiring. So you have someone who's hiring bartender's in a cocktail bar who has only worked in cocktail bars and only, and wasn't very good Bartender at the beginning. How are they going to recognize the person? I can walk through Madison Square Garden. I can walk through Madison Square Garden. And just by how people are standing every once in awhile, I can put my hand down some guy's shoulder up and go like, you would be good just on how they're standing.

YV:

Yeah, dude, it's actually a big struggle doing what I do because I travel a lot to a lot of different markets and I, and I'm, you know, as if a Beverage Director it's like Mark and I, we find these leads and then we let them lead us into like how to hire because they know the market. Right. And that's kinda getting back to what we were talking about earlier is like, you really just need that crucial, that perfect. That top tier management, because it has to trickle down from there. If you're, if you are not a Bartender/Owner at your establishment, you're top tier management better be that soldier that, that is so intuitive.

YV:

And that also, I think leads back to vulnerability is I think that you cannot truly be intuitive without vulnerability because people without vulnerability don't know how to listen. Right. It's almost like I should actually send you like what the like little, like big, long speech I gave to our, our Nashville staff there at Training a couple of days go there first day, we like led off with this. And it was like, these are the things, And I felt like a ding dong saying it. And like at the end of it, like, I got a f*****g like full round of applause, you know? Umm. And that goes back to me and my insecurity is in like the, not afraid to talk about them. And I think that's what makes me special and people all the time and pointing at like, wow, she's so f*****g awesome. She's so cool. She can do what she does. And I'm telling you right now, I'm telling everybody right now that the reason that I can do what I do and that I do do what I do is because I'm not afraid to talk about my weaknesses. And my shortcomings and my mistakes as you did tonight, when you were like, I made a mistake, I thought that in opening, they were going to be people that aren't idiots and I was wrong and it still to this, Hey blows my mind in every Bar interaction, human interaction, family interaction, professional interaction, where somebody can't admit or can in like in it.

YV:

And this is also something that like I I've been both blessed and cursed with, is this ability to be this ultimate diplomat? I think a lot of that comes from my mom. As in my mom's is incredibly, emotionally intuitive and brilliant in that manner. But a lot of that probably comes from diffusing situations in bars. But I think I had it in me beforehand where like, I cannot help, but need to here the five sides of the story. 

MN:

Right.

YV:

I need, I have to understand the five. So that's why I follow all these conservative f*****g people on Twitter. I need to understand, I have to get it. I don't get it. And it like bites me in the ass because it makes it difficult for me to make a decision sometimes. It bites me in the ass because it prevents me from having a strong stance on things sometimes. And God bless Christine Wiseman because she is my girl that I go to when I'm like, Oh, I'm torn between the two things. And she's like, actually not, you know, and sometimes I still disagree with her rarely, but, and that's why I'm so grateful for like, you know, whatever my, you know, dynamic opposite in my life is she is for me in a lot of ways, but the, the ability to emote and understand and be vulnerable is just, I think that that is like, can, how do you read that in body language, in the stadium? You know, you know, I'm not supposed to be interviewing you, but I know,

MN:

But, but that's, but that was a very similar conversation when I was training cocktails in Madison Square Garden when we invented a Cocktail program in a place to never had it. It’s not, it's not different, but you say it different than I do, but you said it very well, right. Is because you think of it in terms of, of vulnerability I think of in terms of maybe you know, empathy or compassion, but I have had to say on multiple occasions here to bartenders work here because we always have, we always have a pickle, right? There's always a pickle. When your training a bartender is I need you to be arrogant enough. Arrogance is my armor, right? Oh wow. I need my arms.

YV:

I love so much. I've never trained to that. Ever.

MN:

Right. But I need, I need to be cocky enough to be able to handle the eyeballs, of 150 people, all of whom I have to control. Right. But I also still have to be human because if I'm not human, I can't listen. And so we have to on one hand, train them into arrogance and tell them that they’re soldiers and tell them, they know the most about cocktails are the most about Rum and your, the best Bar team or whatever. And then we have to train them to be so subservient to other people. They have to anticipate every need they have and try to fulfill it before they, they, they know that even happened.

YV:

Holy s**t.

MN:

Right. And that's the wonderful thing about Bartending because Bartending is all about dichotomies. Its all about dichotomies is just like talking and not talking, you know, it's being, it's being super cocky and super, super f*****g like, like willing to serve.

YV:

Oh my God. That's so that's so funny. Like our, our, our GM that or is she didn’t actually fully grow into GM, which was a bummer because she's, she has it in her and I, and that she will continue to go on and do that. She ended up moving to Colorado. Our last manager at Spare Room I cannot speak enough praises about Brittany, but she toward like- right before we got shut down to right before she wanted to moving to Denver, she's in Denver now. She was, I, I, I, I pull some pretty crazy s**t, like talking about that, like making the monkey's dance or there, and me talking about throwing napkins in your face, I pull some pretty f*****g crazy s**t. And she's I wish, I wish I recorded this, but she's like, I have never seen someone take risks that great. Like, like in knowing that you could polarize somebody, right. So, so quickly and so drastically, but yet still retain the power that no matter which way you throw them and that they land, you're still powerful enough to bring them back somehow. You still have enough of the opposite of what you did to them in you to make sure that they still f*****g go home being like, yo, that Bartender was awesome. And I didn't get taught that. So I don't know how to teach that.

MN:

Right. You just show it though. You show it and you live it.

YV:

I do, but also the problem with that, that I'm in a leadership position. Ooh this is good. I haven't realized this before. I'm in a leadership position? So it's not exactly an example to The other bartenders being like, I can do that too. It's Oh, she's she's the golden God. She she can do that. She can get away with it. I can't get away with that,

MN:

But that is living the dichotomy. Right. That's and that's I learned this at the knee of a woman that I worked at one of the best bars still that I've ever worked with because she could work. I mean, this was, this is a, a bar called Grace is a 44 foot long Bar there was one right there only, ever two bartenders in it and a happy hour. There was, there was, you know, ah, as a woman who I won't name a just cause I haven't seen her long time and ah, and you know, sometimes me right. And she was great, you know, she's, you know, she's a beautiful blonde, whatever, but I mean, she was also like, like, she was awesome. Just awesome. Bartender she would look at dude and they'd be like, Hey, can I get your phone number? And she be like, I don't know how much money do you have in your wallet? And he'd be like, I dunno, like a, a hundred bucks if you like put it on the Bar and then, you know, he put it on the Bar and she'd go like, okay, maybe the next time I'll give you my phone number take his money and take it away. And I was just like, you are a f*****g goddess. You’re a goddess. But that’s also the dichotomy. I often, I often get to the point with Bartenders you were like, Neff does This and he's trying to teach us to do that. And they do it and they do it in a way that doesn't work is wrong. So, you know, I can, I can say, I can say stuff that other people can't say and they take the lesson as I can just say whatever I want. Like, no, I don't say whatever I want. I say what I can. I say what I can take as far as I wanted to go and then pull everybody back to make sure that at the end of the day, they still walk and say that that was awesome. That person was awesome because people love to go on that journey. They love doing on the journey and be like, I'm almost offended, but now you're my best friend. It's like cutting off people and having them say, I'll be back tomorrow. That's a skill to cut some of off-

YV:

No, no wait, which is exactly what Brittany was talking about. She was like, I don’t know how you f*****g just did that. That person hated you. Yeah. For like a minute. And then I don't know what you did.

MN:

And now they’re here every week. 

YV:

Well, we don't really get many regulars, you know, they know they don't come back. 

MN:

Right. And that's fine. 

YV:

And that's partially why I probably do it because our, our audience and our, our, which I f*****g miss so much ours, our, our, our, our clientele, at Spare Room is so transient, it's a big, we actually don't do much revenue from our, our revenue that we drive from Hotel is about 10%. We do. The majority of our revenue is on a reservation based. Umm, and we do a decent on walk ins. And so we have our regulars, but

MN:

I liked the think that I was kind of a regular myself or a certain amount of time.

YV:

You were my regular at Harvard. Not at Spare Room. 

MN:

So there you have it folks that seems like a good place to stop for. Now. This was part one of our two-part Masterclass with a great Yael Vengroff I want to thank everyone for listening and stay tuned for part two, which has got much, much more coming up. So in the meantime, I wanted to remind everybody, we are still in the middle of this pandemic. So you know, all of those things still apply, don’t touch your face. Wash your hands. Where your mask, be sure everyone else wears their mask. When we say, this is the time to take care of everybody this really is that time. So once again, we will see you coming up for the next episode of This Masterclass and more for our spirit school.

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Lady:

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MN:

Well thank you so much. We will see you very soon.